Thanksgiving
EMail This PostSince we are coming up to the Holiday season, I figure it would be a good time to talk about what the Watchtower teaches the Jehovah’s Witnesses on this subject. I think most everyone knows that the Watchtower teaches the Jehovah’s Witnesses that Christmas is not to be celebrated, but what does it say about all the other Holidays?
Let’s talk about Thanksgiving since it is coming up. The Watchtower teaches the Jehovah’s Witnesses that if they celebrate this holiday it would pretty much be spiritual adultery. And since the Watchtower is God’s mouthpiece, then its off limits.
My question is this, can a Jehovah’s Witness show me in the Bible where it says that taking a day to give thanks to God for all we have received is wrong? This actually contradicts the Bible because the Bible says in Romans 14:5 and 6 (which says in the Jehovah’s Witness bible the NWT) “One man judges one day as above the other; another man judges ones day as all others; let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day observes it to Jehovah.”
But if a Jehovah’s Witness has a special meal or is found out to have a special meal on Thanksgiving, Christmas, or Easter, they can be expelled from “God’s Organization”.
How can you be expelled from God’s organization when God himself said its ok? Now lets also take this in context since the Watchtower likes to take things out of context.
We are not saying that if a person wants to celebrate the ungodly holidays that God is not saying it’s OK. But come on people, I think we all can understand what kind of holiday that would be. If you’re not sure, read your Bible and you will find out. My goodness, it’s so absurd I can’t even think of how this is wrong unless you are taking the word of a publication or person who is telling you this, because you’re not getting it from the Bible.
November 5th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.”
November 5th, 2006 at 11:11 pm
Guess?.. You have no case, I’m sorry. You need to be a little more specific. I don’t think most of us know what you mean, I’m sorry.
November 6th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
I don’t agree with the Jehovah Witnesses teachings at all. I have a sister in law that is one and they are all twisted with their beliefs. I’m a born again Christian and I believe what the Holy Bible says not some magazine. You have to study the Word of God for yourself. I know that they believe that people will live on this earth forever but that is a LIE. This present world is going to be destroyed. I don’t think that they believe in Heaven and Hell but they are Real. My sister in law called my church a cult but I think that the Jehovah witness’s Kingdom Hall is a “cult”. God is a forgiven God. My church would Never throw me out of it. You can always repent and ask for forgiveness from God and he will blot them out and remember them no more. We believe in the Holy Ghost according to Acts Chapter 2. We believe in Speaking in Unknown Tongues which is a gift from God which in also in Acts. I just think that they need to read the Holy Bible and ask God to give them a revelation for themselves and not from the Watchtower.
November 7th, 2006 at 8:36 am
Guess Who,… I believe it to be a sad day when an individual responds to questioning with scripture instead of their own thoughts and words. To be brainwashed is to no longer have the ability to think, question, act upon or speak your own original thoughts but to automatically revert to what someone else has taught you. Faith is the absolute belief in someone or something whilst being in the absence of fact or evidence.
There are many “faiths” in the world today & one will disagree & disrespect another to the point of such hatred to initiate killing, for this reason, as an Atheist I believe that religion is the most destructive thing that Man has created.
November 8th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Well I beleive that the jehova’s witness religion is what makes the most sense. The reason why they don’t celebrate christmas isn’t because they don’t beleive in jesus .But it is because the beleive he was born on a different day. Now about the holy ghost situation .Why would you as a person be thinking that one person is like three different people . To answer the question of how I know so much well I study with the jehova’s witness and I suggest that if you are not studying or learning about what they beleive you should either start taking studies or not judge them
November 8th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
i think its absurd how you choose to take the mick out of JW’s who hav done nothing wrong at all to you but follow as Jehovah says. But since you think your the official owner of the bible tell me this: where in the bible does it say Jesus Christ was born on the 25th of december?
where? nowhere you would come to find. and the watchtower hasn’t got complete control over JW’s because Jehovah himself is a kind, loving god who allows free will which let’s JW’s choose and make their own decisions(unless they pray for guidance n wisdom). so i’ve made my point and i hope it makes you see it from a Jehovah Witnesses’ point of view.
no hard feelings
tc
November 8th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
That is the thing though…man created religion. That is one thing that I think everyone can agree on. It is up to the individual person to decide for themselves which “religion” best fits what the Bible teaches. Which also teaches not to hate ANYONE.
November 8th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
What a bunch of psychotics you all are. How about just loving your fellow people, whoever they are! Over one billion Chinese, over one billion Indians, over one billion Indonesians - it’s amazing how they’re all wrong
November 8th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
Hi Elizabeth, thx for writing. I think we could all agree that sometimes the answer that seems to make the most sense at the time, in hindsight has not been correct and we look back and say, “What was I thinking”?
Actually, the day of Jesus’ birth is only one reason that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not celebrate it. However, I think that most Biblical scholars would agree with that fact. But it’s not about the “day”, it’s about the gift of Jesus to the world that is celebrated.
About the Holy Spirit, we believe in the Trinity because that is what the Bible teaches, not that we can comprehend it. We the article on the Trinity and maybe it will help.
Please understand that we are judging the “people”, we are judging the Watchtower doctrine that is taught them because the Bible says we should.
November 8th, 2006 at 8:56 pm
Natasha, I think I answered the Christmas question already, but let me say again. The Bible does not say that Jesus was born on December 25, but that’s not what its about. We could make it October 25 and that would be fine. It’s a celebration of the gift of Jesus to the world.
I guess my question to you would be, where does it say we should not celebrate Jesus’ birthday in the Bible? Where do you find in the Bible that the “great crowd” will inherit earth? You won’t find it.
I will give you an illustration on why we say the Watchtower has complete control on their followers. Between the years 1967 and 1980, Jehovah’s Witnesses could not have and organ transplant. Then in 1980, the Watchtower said it was ok, so the Jehovah’s Witnesses started getting them. So, who were they following? The Watchtower or God? As soon as the Watchtower says something that was off limits is ok, then the Jehovah’s Witnesses follow.
Don’t forget that according to the Watchtower of February 1881 page 188, “New light never contradicts old light, but adds to it”
With this in mind, please explain God’s supposed change of heart on organ transplants and this is only one of many examples.
No hard feelings here either, we really want to help you see.
November 8th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
Hi Ladybug, Let’s look at that. Religion was created by man. It’s nothing more than a set of beliefs that a person holds onto as a means to reach a higher power. Why is that? It’s not about religion, it’s about RELATIONSHIP! Look at the beginning, God walked and talked with Adam and Eve. Can you imagine? I know what it’s like to take my children out into the woods and show them things they never saw before, or to experience things for the first time, like a roller coaster ride. Those are the times that build our relationship with trust and love. The Bible talks a lot about coming to Jesus as children, and I see why. Because he loves to show us his wonder and things we never saw. Yes, he gives us free will, but he also give us his Word to guide us, and this is a “one size fits all” Bible. You can’t choose to read and follow the Bible with blinders on or you miss out on the most important part of the trip, the true relationship you build.
November 8th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
David, I’m not sure why you are turning this into a racial issue. We love the Jehovah’s Witnesses and want them to come to the truth so they can experience what Jesus has for them. It has nothing to do with Chinese, Indians, etc.
November 9th, 2006 at 8:37 am
Pedward, not sure where you get the racial issue from. What I’m trying to say is that all religions believe they are the truth. The point I was making is the fact that so many people have such different beliefs, that the main importance is to be tolerant and accept that others may not follow your path. This does not disregard your path, but neither should it theirs. It is fairly conceited to believe that one religion is preferred to any other, so long as the values are one of tolerance, love and affection. The most amazing thing in this world is the variety it produces (fauna and flora included, thank goodness :-). Think about life without it.
Your friendly Agnostic
November 9th, 2006 at 10:24 am
psalms 37:9-11,29 the wicked shall be destroyed, the righteous themselves will inherit the earth and reside forever in the abundance of peace. It may not say great crowd in this scripture but it surely shows the righteous will be here forever so the earth itself will not be destroyed. And as far as the trinity is concerned how can you say we can’t read and follow what the bible says with blinders on but then you say you can’t understand it fully it’s a mystery. Jehovah didn’t leave things up to mystery or chance. Now about the new light thing with the organs, Jehovah’s witnesses used to smoke cigarettes until they found out it was unhealthy and destructive to the body. Jehovah says to treat the body as a temple. So when new light of smoking being destructive they stopped smoking. You’re always learning new things in life. As for christmas the bible doesn’t teach to remember Jesus birth but instead his death because his purpose was to come here and shed his innocent blood for our sins. The importance was in his death thats why we are all commanded to memorialize his death. “Keep doing this in rememberance of me.” Also I don’t know why you think JW’s don’t believe that Christ was resurrected in the flesh. They teach whats in the Bible that Mary Magdalene saw him in the flesh but she didn’t recognize him she thought he was the gardener. Please if you’re going to speak about the witnesses make sure you know what they believe. Don’t make ussumptions. No offense to anyone who reads this. thankyou
November 9th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Straighten out beliefs, You are correct that Psalms is saying the rightoues will inherit the earth, but this is not a prophetic scripture. If you read it in it’s context, you will see that it’s speaking of things that will happen in the writers own lifetime. Good men will prosper and wicked men would not. If you look at verse 25 you will see that David talks about not being young anymore, but being old and yet he has not seen and righteous. In Verse 37, you see the same thing. It is talking about the benefits of good conduct.
In the Trinity, I think we could all agree that we do not understand everything there is about God. There are certain things in life we just cannot explain because we are not God. For example, can you explain just how our brain stores memory? No, of course not, but we believe it because it’s evident.
On the new light subject, your answer is a common way for Jehovah’s Witnesses to answer a question they cannot answer. They answer a question you did not ask and try to tie it into the question you asked. I did not say anything about smoking, I was talking about organ transplants, and it seems to me if the Watchtower was really the voice of God, it would not have made these doctrines in the first place and state the God said it. So the question about new light still stands.
Christmas; once again you did not answer the question. Where in the Bible does it say we should not celebrate Jesus’ birth? I agree that his death is more significant to the world than his birth, but why take away some honor we give him? Interesting that you say, “keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Is that what the Jehovah’s Witnesses do? No it’s not. They actually gather every year for a memorial where they publicly and before God, pass the cup and do not drink. This is despite the fact that during the last super Jesus said to do it in remembrance of him. So by passing the cup and not drinking you ignore His words. Have you ever thought about what you are saying by doing this?
I say that the Watchtower does not believe in the bodily resurrection, because that is what they teach. They teach Jehovah disposed of his body and then gave him other bodies so that people could see him. Look in our Watchtower library under resurrection and you will see what they say. I don’t assume, I know what they teach.
Resurrection of Christ
Atonement Between God and Man (SS-5), 1912
ed., p. 136 “the man Jesus is dead, forever dead”
The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1918 ed., p. 57
“We affirm the resurrection of Christ - that He was
put to death in flesh but quickened in Spirit. We
deny that He was raised in the flesh, and challenge
any statement to that effect as being unscriptural.”
The Kingdom is at Hand, 1944 ed., p. 259
“Therefore the bodies in which Jesus manifested
himself to his disciples after his return to life were
not the body in which he was nailed to the tree.”
The Watchtower, September 1, 1953, p. 518
“What happened to the perfect fleshly body of
Jesus after his death? … It was disposed of by
Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent
elements or atoms.”
Things in Which It Is Impossible for God to Lie,
1965 ed., p. 354
“The human body of flesh which Jesus Christ laid
down forever as a ransom sacrifice, was disposed
of by God’s power”
The Watchtower, August 1, 1975 p. 479
“Jehovah God disposed of the sacrificed body of
his Son.”
November 9th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
The Bible do not state when Jesus was born, So why would someone celebrate a birthday that is not known? You said that the Jehovah witness is false, but do you not know that it is also false if you celebrating a false birthday. And the reason while I said a false birthday because again, the Bible did not give the date December 25th as Jesus birthday. I do recognize Jesus birth, because he was born for a purpose, and that was to give his life for me and the hold entire world so that we all would have a chance to live. Jesus said to this in remembence of me when he was with his twelve disciples at his last supper. Jesus did not say do this in remembence at his birthday.
November 9th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
You know most people answer questions by giving a parady even Jesus gave examples by comparing it to another story. I guess that’s where I learned to answer a question by giving an example of something else. I thought that was okay to do since Jesus himself did it.
November 9th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
you used a parady when you compared the trinity to the brain storing memory. I also noticed the other comment i wrote to you is not posted. I’m wondering why not?
November 9th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
I would like to tell you one other thing. My husband grew up Catholic. Last year I was pregnant and due to complications delivered our little boy too early. The doctors said he needed a blood transfusion. I told the doctor I didn’t believe in them but to ask my husband because I wasn’t his only parent to consider. My husband told them to give him blood. Shortly thereafter my son had a brain hemmorage. What blood do you think filled up his head for his massive brain hemmorage. I do not blame my husband because he was doing what he thought was best. It just goes to show sometimes blood transfusions can do more harm than good. Respectfully
November 9th, 2006 at 7:44 pm
Easter - The Encyclopedia Britannica comments: there is no indication of the observance of the Easter festival in the New Testament, or the writings of the apostolic Fathers. Than sanctity of special times was an idea absent from the minds of the first Christians. Vol. VIII p. 828 1910
The Catholic Encyclopedia tell us: a great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated life of early spring…The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been and emblem of fertility…vol. V p. 227 1913
In the book T Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, we read: what means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles or Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name…as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar…Such is the history of Easter. The popular observance that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony or history as to it Babylonian character. Teh hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now. New York, pp. 103, 107,108 compare Jerimiah 7:18.
Valentines - The World Book Encyclopedia Informs us: valentines day comes on the feast day of two different Christian martyrs named Valentine. But the customs connected with the day probably come from an ancient Roman festival called Lupercalia which took place every Feb. 15. The festival honored Juno, the Roman goddess of women and marriage and Pan, the god of nature. vol. 20 p. 204 1973
Mothers Day - The Encyclopedia Britannica says: a festival derived from the custom of mother worship in ancient Greece. Formal mother worship, with ceremonies to Cybele, or Rhea, the Great Mother of the Gods, were performed on the Ides of March throughout Asia Minor. vol. 15 p. 849 959
WHAT BIBLE PRINCIPLES EXPLAIN THE VIEWPOINT OF CHRISTIANS TOWARD CEREMONIES COMMEMORATING EVENTS IN A NATIONS POLITICAL HISTORY?
John 18:36: Jesus answered the Roman governor,”my kingdom is no part of this world”
John 15:19: If you (Jesus followers) were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you.”
1 John 5:19: The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” Compare John 14:30, Revelation 13:1,2, Daniel 2:44.
November 9th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
Straighten out beliefs, parables are short allegorical stories that are designed to illustrate or teach some truth, which in turn will answer a question. I’m sorry, but your answer was not a parable and you still have not answered the question.
Comments are moderated, so they will not post until an admin clears them. We switched to moderation because things were getting posted that really should not have been said. I hope you understand.
I am so sorry to hear your story about your son. That must have been a very hard thing to deal with, and I can’t even imagine what that must have been like. I am assuming that you feel the hemorrhage was caused by the transfusions, but transfusions do not cause uncontrolled bleeding. Transfusions are needed because of hemorrhages. I think we could agree on one thing, and that is blood transfusions should be a last resort, but if my loved one was going to die without it, I would have to do it. My heart does go out to you though, and I am very sorry.
November 9th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
CHRISTMAS - Luke 2:8-11 shows that shephards were in the fields at night at the time of Jesus birth. The book Daily Life in the Time of Jesus states: The flocks passed the winter under cover, and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the shephards were in the fields.” New York, 1962 p. 228
The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: The reason for establishing December 25 as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of the winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen, to celebrate the ribirth of the sun…the Roman Saturnalia ( a fetival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun:, also took place at this time, and some Christians customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration.” vol. 6 p. 666 1977
The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: the date of Christ’s birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month….According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener….and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, january 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to norhtern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invicible sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Tome. vol. III p. 656 1967.
November 9th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
It is clear to me that we are just going to believe differently and thats okay but i don’t think you should bash someone’s religious beliefs. Let them believe what they want if they think they are following the bible. We’ll all find out in God’s time. This is my last comment because there was nothing ugly about my comment that was not posted. Sorry I said parady when I meant parable, glad you knew what I meant. But you did use an example just as I did. Thankyou for your condolences.
November 9th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
David, sorry about that, I misunderstood what you were trying to say. You’re right when you say that all religions think they preach the truth. This makes this world a buffet of religion for everyone and the perfect playing field for Satan, and as you said, tolerance is expected. That is of course is as long as you are not Christian. You see it over and over. Christians should be “tolerant” of others, but when we voice our opinion that a baby is a human life at conception, we are fanatics and not to be tolerated! We are nothing more than right wing trouble makers and need to be quiet.
There is only so much tolerance a person can give to another David. There is indeed absolute right and wrong, and the fact that some people feel it’s ok to kill innocent people, does not mean we need to tolerate it. Now this is not about abortion per say, but look at the Sudan and other parts of the world where people are being slaughtered because of who they are. You know, we tolerated a man once and even let him take over a few countries until we decided not to tolerate it any longer. His name was Hitler and in the end he killed millions of Jews. I wonder how many people would have been saved if we would have taken action the first time and not tolerated it. Toleration can have deadly consequences, so be careful how you use it. Think about life without it.
I’m sorry I got off the subject everyone. That fact still remains that the Watchtower has blinded their faithful followers, the Jehovah’s Witnesses and I cannot stand by and see them take innocent lives any longer. That’s why we don’t tolerate it.
November 9th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Bea, do you know that there are children that are adopted everyday that the new parents don’t know their birthday? Now I know you don’t celebrate birthdays and this is really the root of the problem, but if I didn’t know what my exact birthday was, I would pick a day based on the best evidence I had from Doctors, and from that point on, that would be the child’s birthday.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that it’s false to celebrate a false birthday, but again it’s NOT ABOUT THE DAY! I have said this over and over and over again in post after post. Who cares about the day? It’s about a celebration of the gift from God. The fact that the god of this world (Satan) has turned it into a mockery of drunkenness and spending and Santa Claus with reindeers has no bearing in my heart! Just because Jesus didn’t say remember my birthday, doesn’t mean it’s a sin. Why is the Watchtower so quick to add to Gods word?
November 9th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
God bless you Bea, I hope we planted a seed. Please come back when you can, it’s ok to disagree and we don’t mean to bash, but I suppose it does come out that way sometimes. We just hope you see the truth.
November 9th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
Reasoning, thank you so much for writing this.
OK.. everyone pay attention! This is a classic example of a Watchtower tactic they teach the Jehovah’s Witnesses to throw you off your game to try and make you doubt your beliefs. Now here is you answer when they do this.
Reasoning, (or whom ever) I’m sorry but I do not follow “The Encyclopedia Britannica” or “The Catholic Encyclopedia” or books by Alexander Hislop. So your point is moot. What I really need you to do is show it from God’s Word not Man’s word.
The Watchtower will constantly refer to publications that some how point to mean something they want to convey, however, if you tried to do the same, they say that “it’s mans word” and not from God’s organization. Therefore if the book or publication does not reflect or support their belief, then it is labeled as apostate or the same as pornography and the Jehovah’s Witness should not read it.
By the way Reasoning, your scripture quotes are out of context and have nothing to do with the article and the encyclopedia Britannica has this definition about Easter;
Latin Pascha , Greek Pascha principal festival of the Christian church that celebrates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his Crucifixion. The earliest recorded observance of an Easter celebration comes from the 2nd century, though the commemoration of Jesus’ Resurrection probably occurred earlier.
So you may need to read all that it says, not just some parts.
November 9th, 2006 at 9:47 pm
Reasoning, thank you for writing it again!
OK.. everyone pay attention! This is the same classic example of a Watchtower tactic they teach the Jehovah’s Witnesses to throw you off your game to try and make you doubt your beliefs. Now here is you answer when they do this.
Reasoning, (or whom ever) I’m sorry but I do not follow “The Encyclopedia Americana” (notice its not the encyclopedia Britannica this time as in the other post) or “The Catholic Encyclopedia” . So your point is moot. What I really need you to do is show it from God’s Word not Man’s word.
The Watchtower will constantly refer to publications that some how point to mean something they want to convey, however, if you tried to do the same, they say that “it’s mans word” and not from God’s organization. Therefore if the book or publication does not reflect or support their belief, then it is labeled as apostate or the same as pornography and the Jehovah’s Witness should not read it.
Reasoning, as I have said over and over, it’s not about the date!! But, ya know what, that’s the only thing the Watchtower can say. “the date wasn’t December 25th” over and over. WHO CARES???? They miss the point! In fact, they miss the point most of the time!!
November 9th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
I have never met anyone who believes that Christ was born on December 25. There are a few theories how that day was selected. Do some research people. To most Christians it is simply symbolic. Why wouldnt you “celebrate” the birth of THE King. That is how we have salvation! I do agree Christmas has become commercialized and yes Christians do need to be careful how they celebrate, but to me, not to celebrate Christ is just what the devil wants! Thnik about it, those pagan customs and celebration associated with that time of the year is all cultural. Those events couldn’t be “Christmas” because “Christmas” is a celebration of Christ!!! It wasn’t “Christmas” then (those pagan holidays).
November 9th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
AMEN Chelee! Yes, thank you. Someone understands, praise Jesus.
November 9th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
In a couple of weeks (after Thanksgiving) I’m going to do an article on Christmas, so I guess I’ll have to say the same thing again. So anyone who is with me here, please feel free to help me out and explain after it’s publish. Please keep an eye out.
November 10th, 2006 at 8:31 am
Pedward, you really must try to see the whole context! Of course we should not be tolerant of “evil”. I thought I made it quite clear, that I believe we should be tolerant of the differences in the world. Singular examples are like statistics - you can make them show what you want. Did you really think I meant we should be tolerant of murderers etc. Come now! So long as a religion does not preach hatred, we should be tolerant. I could say that religion seems to be at the core of most wars happened and happening in the world. Europe was built on antisemitism between catholics and protestants. (Note, I live here and love Europe) Sorry, I’m getting sidetracked! No need to reply, but I did enjoy the discussion, so thanks for taking the time previously. I’ll leave you to concentrate on the more pressing postings.
Kind regards,
David
November 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
David, thx for clearing it up a bit. The word “tolerant” has been thrown around in the US as a buzz word for anyone who doesn’t agree with some of the left wing agenda. Perhaps we disagree on some points, but I enjoyed the discussion too. God Bless you David and I hope you find Jesus even when you’re not looking for Him. Come back soon, I love a good debate. Kind regards back at you. Pedward
November 10th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Pedward I did want to express one more thing to you about what happened with my premature son. My husband allowed a blood transfusion when the doctors said he needed it. My son was only 1lb 4oz and they were doing alot of blood test on him making his blood levels low because he was so small. The doctors said they needed to replenish that blood. He hemmoragged after the blood transfusion not before. Recently my father in law had surgery. The doctors also gave him a blood tranfusion. He also started bleeding internally so they had to reopen his abdominal area. The blood they had transfused to him had dumped into his abdominal cavity. They had to suction it all out. Fortunately he recovered from it all and is doing better now. But the main thing I wrote in again for was to let you know that the hemmorage of my son was not the reason he needed blood, it did happen after he was given the blood.
November 10th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Straighten Out Beliefs, I was very saddened to hear about your son and give you my whole condolence. However, I think there would be very few doctors who contribute a hemorage to the infusion of blood, as it is actually a weakening of the blood vessels or arteries. I can understand the frustration and reasoning behind your beliefs, in your circumstances! However, before blood transfusions were conceieved there was little survival from grievous injuries. I doubt you will agree so it may be of benefit to investigate this yourself, as opposed to relying on the thoughts of your mentors and peers (I’m not sure what the JW priests are called). Self education is hugely rewarding.
It does seems your strength of character (don’t mistake that for your beliefs) has helped you through these difficult times and I hope you have a happy future.
Take care,
David
November 10th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
Pedward,
I can understand that you are in denial. In The scriptures Jesus explains “I am not part of this world.” Which is what the witnesses go by. You used to be a witness. Why you act like you forgot all of this? Or portray an “apostate”. The references was to show the history of the holidays in the first place. And you can live in denial with the scriptures I quoted. Typical. I believe you know exactly where I’m coming from. Make a forum about there being more than ten commandments….. give us something to challenge.
Sincerly,
Reasoning Book
(you remember this book right)
November 10th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Hi Reasoning, I think I stated my position clearly and I’m sorry but I am not in denial. Your reasoning does not reason with the facts the Bible spells out. You cannot take a passage here and a passage there to make it into what you want it to be. As I said before, we don’t follow what a man writes, but what is written it the Word of God. If you would like to talk about the Ten Commandments in the forum, that’s ok and we welcome it, but I’m just not sure what you mean. I think if you take a step back and stop spouting off what the Watchtower has trained you to say, you will see clearly. I really think we have given you the challenge here on the website. Please feel free to answer the many questions and accusations we set before the Watchtower. That is, if you choose to be their spokesman.
Another typical response from a Jehovah’s Witness that finds someone who knows a lot about their doctrines is to call them apostate, thereby somehow rendering them not worth listening to and off limits to a Jehovah’s Witness. How clever to cut off a person that may speak the truth by having this doctrine. If they were so confident, I would think they would say have at it, talk to them all you want, read whatever they give you, research what they tell you. But the truth is, they don’t and the reason is they are full of lies and deceit. I pray you see the light some day reasoning, I really do. But I can tell from your responses, you are far away from that point yet.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
I am a former Jehovah Witness although i am not one that doesn’t believe I am one that doesn’t agree. Since I have left my family no longer has anything to do with me. Where in the bible does it say turn your back on your family? As far as holidays go I know why they do not celebrate I grew up my entire life not celebrating. But I am sure you will agree most people out there these days do not celebrate holidays for the same reason they used to. Christmas is a time to be with your family and a time to show love for one another. Thanksgiving another time to be with your family and give thanks to god for everything he has provided. As far as birthdays I knwo they dont celebrate because the birthdays that were celebrated in the bible one of god’s prohets were killed, But to me the day my daughter was born is one of the happiest days of my life and it is something I want to celebrate. They say to celebrate death but I am sorry I lost my dad 5 yrs ago and to this day I do not feel like celebrating his death. I celebrate his life and all the things he accomplished. My father was an elder my entire life, He taught me to research other religons and to make the decision for my self to do what I felt was right and that is what I have done I have lost alot in the process, but my dads way of teaching was the right way! God is not in a building a church or anyother place he is in your heart! Remeber going to church doesnt make you a christian anymore than standing in your garage makes you a car.
November 12th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
I still can’t understand why JW’s will not celibrate christmas or any other holiday. Even those who dont belive in God celibrate christmas as a time to be with the people they care about. And whilst im on the subject of people we care about, why arent JW’s alowed blood transfusions even if it will save that persons life?
November 29th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Listen you all stupid my parents have been jehovahs witness for as long as i can remember. they are totaly faithfull to thier religon,,,but that is what it is a religion…no one knows the true religion…celebrating christmas is a choice of the witness did any of you know that jehovah witness used to celebrate christmas and birthdays…probally not they have changed there teachings just as much as the jews,chatholics, baptist and so on…no one knows the time in which god will come…i am a practicing baptist i have asked god to show me where i need to be i went to a church and fell at the alter with tears in my eyes…some that would be frowned apon if i went to the kingdom hall and do god is the head of my life i let him make my choices for me i am not saying that jehovahs witness are the right or wrong religion…but we are all imperfect and i have done some research on them to find out that some of the founding fathers of the religion was drunks bootleggers who know they also proficied the end of the world no one knows when god will come again.
the person who the religion is the same as you and i when you decied on a religion that was by mear man there will be mistakes…who are we to judge…when god comes trust me you will know i am sure of that…the birthday thanksgiving holidays mann that is just something to make them stand out different than all other religions you would be surprise how many familys celebrate with out saying they are…..
November 29th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
okay, going off of something someone wrote here. . forgot where, lots of comments. anyways: There are tons of religiong, and most, if not all, claim that they are the one true and correct one. Therefore, there is no possible way that all of them are right. People have the right to believe whatever they want, but I’m not going to say that one religion is just as correct as another because that is impossible. Either one of the many religions claiming to be the only right one is correct, or religion is pointless and all of it is false. Each separate religion contradicts the others so much that having more than one be correct would be impossible. Think about it.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
Read, I hear what you’re saying. It can be very difficult to wade through the myriad of religions in the world, but much of it comes down to common sense. Most religions have some sort of written word they consider to be their guide and that is what they follow. The only problem is, with the exception of the Bible, none of them were written by many different authors over thousands of years apart, but say the exact same thing. None of them have the hundreds of prophecies that came true in them except the Bible. These facts alone should point to the Bible as a starting point for anyone who is searching.
Now, if you want to break down each Christian religion to find out which one is correct, it may be a little more difficult, but you need to understand that most Christian religions agree on key doctrines, but disagree on minor ones and that is how you get the splits. It’s not about the religion or church you go to as much as it is about what you do with Jesus Christ. Everyone’s ultimate destiny comes down to one thing, do you know you are a sinner and need a savior because there is not one of us who isn’t. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the savior and was sent to the cross to pay the penalty of that sin, and do you except Jesus Christ into your heart to save you. It’s all about your relationship with him, not religion. Jesus said, “I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father except through me”.
November 30th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
in my comment i was not referring to the many different christian religions, considering that, as you said, the key doctrines are all basically the same. this does exclude mormons and jehovah’s witnesses. although both believe in jesus christ and that he died for peoples’ sins *pretty sure mormons believe this* the rest of their beliefs are vastly different from other religions claiming to be christian. i do believe and accept what the bible teaches, it is just that so many people interpret it so differently and add on their own things to it. the mormons have their own extra book, which is waaaay off by the way. some guy read it out of a hat?. . . and witnesses, although are very nice people, you probably won’t find a more genuinely nice and honest group of people, i disagree with many of their practices, such as disfellowshipping. which, i understand is to keep god’s organization clean, you can’t have some drug addict hooker going around saying he/she is a witness. . . then it casts doubt upon the religion and whatnot, but that doesn’t mean that no one should talk to or associate with the person. how are they supposed to get back into “the truth” as they put it? not exactly sure, considering no one who knows “the truth” will talk to them. right now i’m just confused, i have accepted jesus as my saviour, i did that long ago. .. . just everything else is difficult.
November 30th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
Trish (comment 38),
About christman and Thanksgiving being a time to show love to your family. Jehovah, who originated the family, wants us to be loving towards our family and have the greatest love for them (ephesians 3v14,15). But do we really need a special time in the year to show the most love we could EVER show to our families?? Shoudlnt we be showing love to our families no matter what day, week, month etc. it is?
About birthdays and death, everyone who has had children knows the joy of them being born and how happy they feel, but if they have accomplished nothing as a baby, wouldnt it be better to celebrate someones life when they have died… to show everyone the great things they have accomplished and done in life?Of course you do not need to celebrate somones life ONLY when they have died. Im a very sorry to hear about your dads death, i know how terrible it can be when some extremely close to you, and you love so much dies. You may feel very sad around the time when your dad died, believe it or not, JWs get upset too!! But it is also an amazing opportunity to reflect on all the great things about him, and what he does.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Sarah, nothing for nothing, but what is wrong with setting aside a day to celebrate things? My goodness, read the Old Testament, it’s riddled with celebrations and now we have to say it’s wrong because the Watchtower “thinks” it’s wrong without any scriptural base to back them up? I’m sorry, but I really hope that you will really read the Bible, without the Watchtower and let God lead you. You will be amazed at the joy that is being sucked out of your life because of the Watchtower.
December 3rd, 2006 at 9:07 pm
I didn’t get a chance to read all of the posts.. i got down to about 20 something and read the last few.. I was raised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and no Im no longer a part of that religion. yes people are entitled to believe in what they want to believe.. as far as the holidays go.. i never celebrated anything growing up except family day. it was something my family made up that we would do during the summer.. we’d get together play games give gifts and have fun.. it was family day.. our day
just wondering.. like i said i didn’t read all posts.. but did anyone mention john the baptist in regard to birthdays?? when the dancer’s mom asked for his head on a platter as a gift. the girl danced for a kings birthday.. no i don’t remember his name that was over 7 years ago
December 4th, 2006 at 2:16 am
Well yesterday was my first time at a kingdom hall. I enjoyed it for the most part..but I dnt think they teach any wrong some things i have yet to understand..but I am willing to learn. I mean im open to learning about anything new.. or sumthing that will better my views on life. god. the world. anything
December 4th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
I will believe in the grace and mercy of my Lord. I feel that the Bible is my resource and that everytime I pray I am heard by my Spiritual Father. Why do people put their faith in others? Why do JWs believe that the writers of watch tower are their way, truth, and life.
Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through Him. God gave His son, Jesus, to free us from our sin. John 3:16 says that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not parish but have everlasting life. Jesus is the sacrifice for our sins. He died to pay the penalty that I could not.
By the way, I have a friend who is JW and she celebrated Thanksgiving with me and my family, she went to my niece’s birthday party, and she is celebrating Christmas with my family. Is she wrong? I hope not, but if she is maybe she is learning the true way.
In closing I have one question. Why don’t JWs have windows on their “churches”?
December 4th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
Kate, Yes, please read the post on birthdays.
December 4th, 2006 at 8:02 pm
every day is a day of thanks to Jehovah. you can have as many special days and meals as you want and there is nothing wrong with that biblicly.the problem is that there are many pagan practices that have been assimilated thru the years that people do not know about. some say i do not do those things for the same reason as pagans did. but if you were to look these things up out of your own respect for God, or chose not to , there is alot of information, spiritual history you do not know. you can all do what you want, we all can. but can we do what God wants for our own good?
December 6th, 2006 at 7:28 pm
Hi Me, We are not talking about what Pagans do, we are talking about what each of us does because of their own heart. You know, satan loves to mimic and destroy anything Godly, so even if a pagan ritual started on a Holiday, that wouldn’t mean we should stop celebrating it! My goodness, if it were that easy, then satan would have it made, all he had to do is start a pagan holiday on the same day and we would stop giving thanks! It doesn’t matter what anyone else does, it’s why each one of us does it. God has never ever said in his word not to give thanks, or celebrate any gift he has given us whether its birthdays, Christmas, thanksgiving or Easter, you will not find it in the Bible. Believe me, if God wants us to know something, its in his Word plain as day, you wouldn’t have to read into a story to get it.
December 7th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate most holidays because their is no biblical bases for them. In actuality, most holidays are based on pagan beliefs. For example, Easter, which is supposed to commemorate Jesus’ resurrection, was actually founded based on the Greek goddess Demeter, who is the goddess of fertility. (Think about it, why is the Easter bunny the symbol for Easter). Christians decided to continue to use the holiday and make it their own, even though they rejected “other” pagan beliefs (believing in more than one God). As Christians, we’ve decided to pick and choose what we want to believe in, which is fine, but know some basic history about the things you do and why you do it. Most of these holidays are definitely not biblical in nature. The same thing with Christmas. Supposedly, Jesus was born on December 25th. The last time I checked December fell during the winter season. However, the Bible states that Jesus was born around the time of the harvest, which would make me think September or October sometime. Just a thought…
December 7th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Mel, ya just don’t get it I suppose. I have answered this over and over, so I can’t repeat it again, I’m sorry. Read all the post and you will have my response.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Very well put Pedward,I wrote your’s down to show my cousion that went Jehovah Witness, been trying for 4 months to show her it does not say any wear in the bible not to give thanks.
December 9th, 2006 at 2:47 am
Elizabeth,
I am sorry but you are thinking in manly terms not Godly.Do not forget God is Omnitiont. THree people in one at the same time. He is like a football. It is three in one. Rubber, airblader, air. Answer this Jehovah’s witnesses, how come you alway reiterate or backstab what you have already said? And Kbabyboomer, they are right it dosen’t say not to but they thiink why just set one spacific day to give thanks. I do not think Jehovah’s witnesses should relate all American or other countries holiday wich they do not celibrate to Greek gods. Easter and Valentines day do not have to do with Greek crap it has to do with Jesus Christ the son of God our Lord three in one trinity the everlasting Father.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:23 am
Wow ! After reading many of the postings it is quite apparent that I have quite a bit of work ahead. Wait. Big surprise ahead. Sometimes a message is so important that it is worthy of being repeated.
In His Majesty’s Secret Service
Gabriel
December 20th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
I studied JW for almost a year and got completely sucked into it….my life started to fall apart. Lost my job, friends, family, everything I ever enjoyed…I didn’t even know who I was anymore. My ex-boyfriend was raised JW. His entire family is a mess. The parents are still dedicated and all 4 sons are disfellowshipped. All 4 sons are angry, control freaks. Very miserable family. It’s so sad and now I see why. They never enjoyed anything. I now figured it out and am starting to come back to the things that made me, me. I don’t think there is any reason we can’t celebrate things with a good heart. God doesn’t want us to be miserable as long as we believe and try.
December 25th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
why would a TRUE christian
organization
set up a hate site against another christian group. Do Jehovah Witnesses not believe in the bible and want people of this world to be saved, just like other so called religions? I’ve never met a jehovah witness who talked bad about any other
religion; but are very respectful of others beliefs. Would jesus set up a hate site? probably not. Just mind your own. You might as well set a hate site for mormos and muslims since they don’t have the same belief system as you either. Why Jehovah witness’? The bible does mention those who follow God’s word will be the subject of redicule for the sake of his name. hmmmm intresting…
February 24th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
thank you r says i agree with you i hear the same thing in my family from some one who is a j.w. and finly i just started tell her if thats what you belive becouse they want to argue book out 20 ? j. w. can not anwser in book stores
February 24th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
to who ever the j.w. do not belive in the army of any other branch or gov.but if the lived some were eles the would not be able to have this web sight or freedom would they